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Unread postPosted: April 4th, 2012, 8:19 pm 
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You should also be ok with me or anyone else purchasing a gun without an id or any questions asked. Right? If not, then please explain. They are both constitutionally protected rights to American citizens outlined in the original Bill of Rights. If your argument is that a gun is much more dangerous than a vote and want to reference recent tragic shootings, I'm willing to bet those that lived under Stalin, Hitler, Castro, Kim Jung Ill,Mao, Saddam etc. would love to disagree with the statement that a gun in the wrong hands is worse than a vote in the wrong hands. I would really like to hear your argument why only one of these two constitutionally protected rights that the same group of citizens (American citizen, non-felon, live within the district you are voting in etc) are entitled to should require a photo id to prove eligibility (And for the record, I think you should need an id to buy a gun AND vote.) But i'm waiting for you blindly loyal democrat followers to chime in and give me a good answer to this.

Why is this a controversial issue? Because the Democrats want to make it a controversy. We have voter fraud happening routinely during every election and odds are very good that it benefits the Democrats. They favor it and groups that support them are behind it. When you read about ACORN (or whatever their current name is), students groups or Latino groups committing and supporting voter fraud it's always those that support Dems.
So what do they do?
They cry racism or poverty or whatever and pretend that 2012 America is the same as in the 1960's. Supposedly the same people that MUST show ID in order to get government aid or into college now do't have any ID when it's time to vote. It's all somehow a rightwing conspiracy to supress the votes of the poor and minorities. You want the peasants to be able to have the right to vote democrat easily even if some of them have no right to vote, but not give them the right to protect their lives and their families lives easily. You must be racists. :D


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Unread postPosted: April 4th, 2012, 9:54 pm 
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Joined: June 23rd, 2011, 11:41 am
Posts: 509
Location: Saginaw
I can't say I disagree... You know you just swatted a hornets nest with this post. There has been voter fraud and suppression since the beginning of voting. Whoever is in power is blamed with suppression and those out of power claim fraud. It doesn't matter the party affiliation of the players, they all play it. It is a game to rile up the troops to get them into action for them, and against their opposition.

Look at redistricting, the party in power at the state level gets to play with the lines on the map. It is to help that party get more folks in office. Doesn't matter if it is R or D, they both play and the one on the short end cries foul.

Just my simple minded opinion :)

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Unread postPosted: April 4th, 2012, 10:43 pm 
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This is slow pitch chevyguy85.


First where is the evidence of this massive voter fraud?



Lets be honest about voting also. To steal a quote from a friend on another forum "voting is the least political active thing we can do". IMO the status quo likes to pretend that voting is important to hold up this false choice we have. We all know that voting for Rep or Dem is not going to change anything(maybe it's better to say anyone given credibility on tv), we just choose not to accept this. It's all a soap oprea so we can feel better about our team losing.

Second, if I need an ID to vote and buy a gun, do I need ID to use my right to free speech or protest and gather? Our government gives guns to people without ID all the time yet we are the ones restricted by this whole argument. We have forgotten that the constitution and bill of rights is to protect us from the government. Now the government pretends that they are protecting us from each other, ya right.

IMO we should not be required to present ID for voting or buying a gun. I don't believe we should be required to carry ID at all. I personally don't need the government to protect me because the other thing I am scared of is GOVERNMENT. That goes for my government and others. Past governments are the only thing that has wiped out massive amounts of people (well the church also). I say give arms to every person. Then disarm all governments and watch how they act. The government is not us and us is not the government.


I could of done more on this but I'm on 3rd now and gotta leave for work.

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Unread postPosted: April 5th, 2012, 7:34 am 
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gokuchi wrote:
This is slow pitch chevyguy85.


First where is the evidence of this massive voter fraud?





If the ACLU says it, then it's gotta be true. :roll: They don't have an agenda or nothing like that. :roll: . What I saw from that chart was voter fraud cases that were known and discovered. Not a number of fraudulent votes or the impact those votes could have had. Each single one of these cases could have involved 10, 20, or even 10,000 fraudulent votes. And their own chart showed that it has been increasing in recent years. Again, i'll repeat myself. Most of those who are so poor to claim they can't afford a state id are probably on some form of govt assistance. And to receive that govt assistance, they needed to provide a government issued id. And you are probably in the minority here that think you shouldn't need an id for a gun. Most here would probably say you should have to provide an id and a background check. I think you should except for private one time sales. However, if I decided I needed some extra cash and wanted to sell a gun that I didn't need anymore, I could be held legally responsible if the person I am selling to is a convicted felon AND it could be proven that I was aware of that person's criminal record at the time of the sale.

But for the rest of you, so what if a poor minority family is being threatening and they saved up enough money to protect their family and buy a cheap saturday night special. Only to get to the gun store and be asked to provide an id which they can't afford. That makes you all a bunch of racists here because you don't want the poor and minorities to be able to protect themselves and their families. See how ridiculous this sounds? It works both ways.


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Unread postPosted: April 5th, 2012, 9:15 am 
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Unread postPosted: April 5th, 2012, 9:35 am 
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Joined: February 18th, 2011, 5:57 pm
Posts: 440
chevyguy85 wrote:
You should also be ok with me or anyone else purchasing a gun without an id or any questions asked. Right? If not, then please explain. They are both constitutionally protected rights to American citizens outlined in the original Bill of Rights. If your argument is that a gun is much more dangerous than a vote and want to reference recent tragic shootings, I'm willing to bet those that lived under Stalin, Hitler, Castro, Kim Jung Ill,Mao, Saddam etc. would love to disagree with the statement that a gun in the wrong hands is worse than a vote in the wrong hands. I would really like to hear your argument why only one of these two constitutionally protected rights that the same group of citizens (American citizen, non-felon, live within the district you are voting in etc) are entitled to should require a photo id to prove eligibility (And for the record, I think you should need an id to buy a gun AND vote.) But i'm waiting for you blindly loyal democrat followers to chime in and give me a good answer to this.

Why is this a controversial issue? Because the Democrats want to make it a controversy. We have voter fraud happening routinely during every election and odds are very good that it benefits the Democrats. They favor it and groups that support them are behind it. When you read about ACORN (or whatever their current name is), students groups or Latino groups committing and supporting voter fraud it's always those that support Dems.
So what do they do?
They cry racism or poverty or whatever and pretend that 2012 America is the same as in the 1960's. Supposedly the same people that MUST show ID in order to get government aid or into college now do't have any ID when it's time to vote. It's all somehow a rightwing conspiracy to supress the votes of the poor and minorities. You want the peasants to be able to have the right to vote democrat easily even if some of them have no right to vote, but not give them the right to protect their lives and their families lives easily. You must be racists. :D


Same thing with diversity. It's not about diversity, it's about conformity.


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Unread postPosted: April 5th, 2012, 10:20 am 
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The person from the ACLU only initially made the statement. The website politifact is the ones who checked into it and put it as mostly true. Listen to the video again.
http://www.politifact.com/florida/state ... d-florida/ Now if you wanna guess to how many votes per case I think we should look at it this way. In the political climate of today I think it's safe to say that if a 10,000 votes case was out there, then we would of heard about this, or even close to that.


Now in this article they do provide one case which is about 100 counts of voter fraud. The funny thing about that is, it's all done by mail in voting. Which wouldn't make showing ID of any use.

Overall I think we can agree that voter fraud happens because government is out of control. If we can agree on that, I don't see how giving government more power is going to solve this problem.

In regards to showing ID to buy a gun, how does that make us any safer? If you look at Project Gunrunner, these people didn't have ID's so they just got someone with a ID to buy the guns for them. It's not rocket science. A lock only keeps an honest person honest. My logic tells me that ID voting laws make more sense then gun ID laws simply because you can't get around the voting ID law. Either way it's all BS because the people we are voting for are sold out from the get go. It's all about baseball team politics.

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Unread postPosted: April 5th, 2012, 1:37 pm 
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Joined: May 28th, 2011, 10:33 am
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Location: under a bridge
gokuchi wrote:
I say give arms to every person. Then disarm all governments and watch how they act.


Lucky for you that an experiment of your liking is currently on going for about 2 decades.
When can we send you a plan ticket to Somalia? :twisted:


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Unread postPosted: April 5th, 2012, 8:04 pm 
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Oh yes, Somalia. Another shining example of american intervention lol. So, on what date was the Somali government disarmed? I know the government has disarmed civilians but not themselves.

http://blog.amnestyusa.org/waronterror/ ... an-crisis/

This article is more recent but shows US selling arms to Somalia government. There are more reports of arms sells to somalia during the arms embargo. I'm sure truth be told those arms was sold thru proxy american dealers. Please note in the article of the secret CIA prison in the Somali airport, paid for with your tax money. Not a good example of Libertarianism.


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Unread postPosted: April 6th, 2012, 1:16 am 
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Joined: June 23rd, 2011, 11:41 am
Posts: 509
Location: Saginaw
The US has been playing quasi-imperialism since the end of WW2. Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Israel, South Korea, South Vietnam, Afghanistan, El Salvador, Panama, Columbia, etc to name a few. We seem to pick a side and then arm them to the hilt. When said friendly leaders fall, we jump sides to defeat the ones who took out our puppet. Most of them come back to bite us in the backside, an cost us American lives and treasure. It is STUPID! Both parties do it along with the bureaucrats that are entrenched in government.

We have to make sure elections are run properly in other countries, but can't make up our minds if one is fair here at home. It is a crock of BS! Our government officials are so worried about keeping their paycheck coming in from the interest groups, they don't care who they screw to keep it. BOTH parties do it! They play on individual hot buttons to rile up the folks so that they don't see what is going on right in front of their eyes.

Most states are broke! They spent all the money during the good times, never expecting bad times to ever come again. Problem is, now they made promises that they can't keep. There are people getting kicked to the curb, benefits cut, pay reduced. The only way to prevent that from happening is to raise the state's income levels (taxes). But who to tax? The poor, don't have it to tax. The corporations, will pass the increase to the consumer. The consumer/middle class, they don't have much to work with either. It's a conundrum that depending on which side you are on, who gets the shaft.

As far as guns go, we need a concerted effort to take them away from criminals before we disarm the law abiding citizens. We went from no control at the beginning (wild west) to civilized (seizures and heavy regulation) to limited access in less than 150 years. The only ones not disarmed were the bad guys! All along! We did it backwards! If the bad guys, psychos, and criminals didn't have guns the comman citizen wouldn't need guns to protect themselves. There isn't a cop on every corner anymore to stop the bad guy before he hurts someone, we can't afford it.

Things can be made simple to understand if we take the time to think about the issue, use common sense, and take politics out of the equation. Politics of fear sells! Media slant/bias sells! Sheeple buy both every day and are happy for it. I'm not a freaking sheep!

I'm off my soap box now :) enjoy Easter my friends!

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